Saturday, 25 June 2011

The Denialists

Via the Pub Curmudgeon, it seems someone has had the nerve to post in the Grauniad with an objection to the banning of Electrofags and the denormalisation of smokers.

The Predictables have, naturally, filled the comments with 'You are all filthy' and 'You stink' and 'I am so much holier than thou' and the rest of the useless, futile arguments from useless, futile people.

Although I did have to get to page four of the comments to find this:

williamfish 24 June 2011 11:17AM This article is manipulative and constructs a straw man. I wouldn't be surprised if it was funded by British American Tobacco

Yawn. The old 'anyone who doesn't like the ban is obviously funded by the tobacco industry' nonsense. I'd love to be funded by the tobacco industry. They have pots of cash. I'd have a private pub in my house, complete with cigarette vending machine and just enough space between the ashtrays to put down your glass, if they were paying.

It also took until page 4 before Roy Castle's name cropped up. Oh, and the old 'lumpy barmaid' line.

skinhead69 24 June 2011 11:28AM Whilst I miss smoking fags in pubs, you should really look at cancer rates in barmaids and realise what this 'little luxury' is capable of. Roy Castle never smoked and he died of lung cancer due to playing in smoky clubs. It's really not that hard to troop outside and have a woodbine in the open.

This from, apparently, a smoker. Cigars clearly don't count as smoking, and a non-smoking-related lung cancer is caused by smoking. Many of those 'smokers who support the ban' reveal, in conversation, that they know sod all about smoking. They've never tried it. Sham smokers abound in comments. This might be one, or maybe he's just a dunce. They never expect sham antismokers on their sites, you know. They're so clever, in their own minds, and smokers are too dim to try their own tricks back on them. Which is useful.

Going outside is no hardship? Depends where you live. Have a look at midsummer in Dundee and ask yourself if it would be worth opening a pub there.

I didn't bother reading further. Calls for the deaths of all smokers, for the Final Solution, mixed in with pompous declarations of 'Nobody minds if you smoke, there is no hatred, you're just a smelly idiot' and one utter cretin even goes so far as to stick signs up in his house saying 'No smoking or I'll kick you in the balls'. Why? I know non-smokers who don't like smoking in their houses. I don't smoke in there. They know I smoke, they'd rather I didn't smoke in their houses, no problem. I mean, I don't force them to smoke when they visit me. If I saw a sign like that in a friend's house, they would be an ex-friend in a second.

Second, third and fourth hand smoke is well received by the hard of thinking, they truly believe it will kill them and you can be sure I make full use of that. The more dilute the smoke, the deadlier it gets, apparently. So the trace I leave on the handle of the supermarket trolley... then a smokophobe's child sits in the basket... ha ha ha. I think, next time I'm in Tesco, I'll make sure to carefully inspect all the healthy foods. I'm getting old so I have to pick up the packs to read the labels. I'll also be extra-considerate and be sure to hand things down to children who can't reach them. If you believe you will die from this, then you had better do so, decrease the surplus population and increase the country's average IQ at the same time.

One of the dribbling morons even blames smokers for the pub closures. Yes, it seems that the smoke in pubs kept the Holy Ones away so the landlords should have banned smoking years ago and pubs would now be thriving. The Olympics are coming up and I think we have a certain gold in the Missing the Point event. Reading those comments, we should easily take silver and bronze too.

As usual, there are plenty along the lines of 'I object to you vile creatures smoking when I'm paying for a meal'. It's been banned for four years, five in Scotland, and still they bleat. There is no point attempting anything to please these people. It simply cannot be done. Make them suffer instead. It's what they want. Forget compromise, they don't want to even discuss it and anyway, it's gone much too far for that now.

Supermarket booze causes pub closures because it's cheaper even though it always has been. The recession caused pub closures before it even started, through a wormhole in time. The invention of the Xbox is why people no longer visit pubs that have never, as far as I know, had Xboxes in them. The smoking ban has had no effect at all. Oh, and let's not forget that 'smokers are in denial'. Reason with these people? You'd have better luck putting a brick through your TV and then trying to talk it into fixing itself. There is no point providing clues to the clueless.

Oddly enough, Smoky-Drinky evenings have no video games. The most that will be on is the TV (like in the pub). We don't even have slot machines. What we have is a semblance of the pub, but without the pretend-coughs, the whining and the smoking ban. Unfortunately we don't yet have proper beer pumps but we might yet manage to pick some up from a closed-down pub. Have to be quick, there seems to be a fair bit of competition for old pub fittings here. Optics? No, the measures are far too small.

Someone once worried about the staff of these illicit Smoky-Drinkies. There are no staff. There are no children. It is not open to the general public. No idiots allowed, so nobody worries about second hand smoke, even if they just come along for the drinky part. No membership and no sales. Not a business, not open to the public, no staff. No sign outside and variable location. ASH - you can't touch this.

Real pubs? I used to visit at least once a week, every week, for many years. I was on a pool team for a few years but was never a great player and preferred the drinking to the game, so I gave up my place as soon as someone better wanted to play. Since the ban I rarely visit pubs. It has nothing to do with supermarket prices, nothing to do with the recession, and nothing to do with video games machines (I don't have one). I have been in a pub less than five times in the last three years and on none of those occasions did I stay long. There was a time when pubs felt welcoming. Now they just feel like bus station waiting rooms.

I recently went back to that country pub where I played pool. It no longer has a team. The pool table is ripped and won't be repaired. Not enough customers to make it worthwhile. They also no longer have draught beer because it goes out of date before the barrel is finished. Half the bar area is cordoned off, the lounge bar is closed and still nobody goes without a seat. It used to be a thriving pub, but most of the customers smoked. They have made other arrangements now.

I haven't been in a restaurant or even a cafe since just after the ban came in. Even though I wasn't smoking in them, the atmosphere in those places soon became intolerable. Everyone is now watching everyone else in case they're a smoker. Or a paedo. Nobody strikes up conversations, nobody even makes eye contact. Those places are ruined and they cannot be fixed. Let them die.

I, and a growing group of hard-drinking smokers, no longer need the pub. We have Smoky-Drinky. So let the smokophobes pretend pubs aren't closing down. Let them pretend the closures are due to anything but the smoking ban. Let them pretend the ban has had no effect at all. Let it all die.

Smokers still meet for coffee and a smoke. We still have our boozy evenings.

In fact, I think it's rapidly working out that we have the better end of the deal. So I expect the whiners will want to put a stop to that soon.

Let them try.

Update: had a browse through more comments and picked up this link, in which ASH demonstrate that false connections, strawmen, and absolute out and out lies are all perfectly okay by them.

So they can't complain if a *cough* smoker *cough* uses a real-sounding alter ego to wind up their zealots on their own sites, now can they? Lies are an acceptable tactic. Their game, their rules.


Smoking Hot said...

Yes indeed LI, let them try. We have our smokey-drinkys , our clubhouse, we still have the Greeks who ignore all legislation. lt's great to be a rebel. Not forgetting the e-cig that also scares the Righteous to death. All in all, l'd say l'm having a great amount of fun.

Anonymous said...

At the end of the day (hate that phrase but never mind), it has always been true that only X number of places are places where people habitually enjoy tobacco - not churches, not libraries, not concert halls. Essentially, pubs and clubs have been the places. Is it therefore any wonder that ASH ET AL ('et al' being the 'powers-that-be who OWN Ash) were overjoyed to have been able to force publicans to eject smokers on pain of massive fines? We sometimes forget that it was the massive fines which enforced the ban in pubs and clubs. Should we therefore be surprised that ASH ET AL are pushing for even further restrictions? They have got away with Stage One - why not proceed to Stage Two?
But their contempt for smokers and indeed, politicians, is beginning to be seen. Their bending and twisting of statistics, and their utter contempt for the real science of epidemiology is becoming clear, and serious epidemiologists are beginning to wake up to the fact that their 'science' has been highjacked. Their 'science' is being brought into disrepute.

But the contempt goes further. No one now believes that their 'studies' are realistic. Their studies are simply 'propaganda'.

Who thinks otherwise?

Leg-iron said...

Junican - there are plenty of gullible idiots who will seize on anything that makes them feel superior. They convince themselves it's all true and soon they will shun not only smokers, but nonsmokers who are friends with smokers, family of smokers, anywhere and anything a smoker might have been or touched.

They want to isolate smokers, but they are doing a grand job of isolating themselves. They will end up quaking with fear lest a particle of the deadly tobacco drift through their ventilation systems.

Let them.

Leg-iron said...

Smoking Hot - it really is a lot of fun tormenting them, isn't it? The more drones ASH produce, the more fun it is.

Bill Sticker said...

I just heard one of my old locals is closing for good on the 4th of July this year. An old fashioned village pub. Grade 2 listed and full of fond memories. Sadly since the smoking ban the customers have stayed home more and more.

It'll probably end up as some Bankers empty second home or weekend retreat. Perhaps someone will even try running it as a B & B or worse still, a gastropub.

Cultural vandalism. That's what it is.

JuliaM said...

"Roy Castle never smoked and he died of lung cancer due to playing in smoky clubs."

Oh, we're playing the 'the plural of anecdote is data' game, are we?

I know a few people who got (and some died) from cancer without smoking. But they never played the bloody cornet either...

Harri said...

What total tosh these righteous drones talk ...

"skinhead69 24 June 2011 11:28AM Whilst I miss smoking fags in pubs, you should really look at cancer rates in barmaids and realise what this 'little luxury' is capable of. Roy Castle never smoked and he died of lung cancer due to playing in smoky clubs. It's really not that hard to troop outside and have a woodbine in the open."

My Great Grandad, was a keen cyclist, in fact he was a member of the Great Britain cycling club, and cycled untill he passed away at the grand old age of 88, ( his bike was even older than he was) when the family visited him, he was so anti-smoking, he used to make us walk to the end of the 200 ft garden and beyond the allotments so he did not have to even see us all smoking, he detested it that much, in fact if he was walking on one side of the road and an 'evil smoker ' was walking towards him, he would cross the road to avoid that person, a picture of health, and led a very healthy lifestyle, he died two years ago... riddled with Lung cancer ... go figure.

One for the righteous, Just what was the name of that castle which got 'smoke damaged' some while back, No it was not Winsdor castle, it was Roy Castle.

You can faint now righteous.

Leg-iron said...

Bill - there are a few grand old pubs locally that have now been boarded up.

JuliaM - the more anecdotes you combine, the more you get to shout FACT at the end of it all, as if it was actually true.

Harri - cycling in traffic can't be healthy. I'm safer staying at home smoking, I think.

Slamlander said...

I only wish that I could write like you but I haven't the sense of humor.

BTW, I couldn't finish listening to the link in your update. Something about Celine, she is disgusting! She is brain-dead and the euthanists should be brought in to finish off the body, which has gone long past the death of the brain. Perhaps it is an excess of super healthy living?

winston said...

LI. Your midsommer global warming dundee link goes to the gruinad.

Leg-iron said...

Winston - sorry about that. Fixed.

Slamlander - I don't thnk she even knows she's lying. She's just replaying the words recorded into her emnpty head.

hangemall said...

On the subject of Roy Castle, here's something fron Captain Ranty's place early last year:-

1 March 2010 14:55
Blogger Dave said...

I've never smoked, but I'm with you on this one.

My music career is down the drain because the smoking ban has emptied pubs and clubs.

The fucking whingers cry our "Roy Castle" & "Passive smoking" but that's all unproven bollocks.

Pubs and clubs should be designated smoking or non-smoking. If you're a non smoker then it's your choice whether to go into a non smoking pub. Stop fucking whinging and allow adults to be adults.

1 March 2010 15:04
Blogger Uncle Marvo said...

I correct "Dave".

The Roy Castle thing HAS been proven.

The cancer that he unfortunately died of could NOT have be caused by passive or any other kind of smoking.


1 March 2010 15:06
Blogger Captain Ranty said...

Plus, he smoked cigars. My mate supported his act in the sixties and seventies and watched him fire up a stogie after each gig.

Even so, Roy contracted the "non-smokers lung cancer"-adenocarcinoma.

We chuffers contract Small Cell or Oat Cell cancer.

They be like chalk and cheese.


1 March 2010 15:12

PS Sorry Cap'n I always seem to be pinching your stuff.

PPS word verification is gatlyng, near enough for me....

nisakiman said...

"No membership and no sales. Not a business, not open to the public, no staff. No sign outside and variable location. ASH - you can't touch this"

Don't be so sure LI. As you've said yourself, mission creep is what ASH are all about. Private cars are next on the list, and then the logical next step is private homes. ASH don't like Smoky-Drinkys, and they are now in the crosshairs. Unless ASH get rumbled for the charlatans that they are, I'd guess that in a couple of years time your "Smoky-Drinkys" will take on the mantle once worn by opium dens, and you'll have the old bill smashing your door down..

God, I'm glad I don't live there anymore. That woman on the "Today" interview epitomised all that's fucked-up in the UK. I just wanted to scream at her blind dogmatism.

Leg-iron said...

Hangemall - Roy Castle is the only 'passive smoking'death they can name, and he was neither a passive smoker nor did he die of anything smoking-related. On that basis, they claim hundreds of thousands of deaths from passive smoking. That's what they call 'science'.

nisakiman - That day is sure to come, and that's why Smoky-Drinky has no fixed premises. We're already regarded as outlaws, so when the Nazis get around to us, ASH shouldn't be surprised to find that we've been practicing. But they will be.

Billy the Fish said...


It wasn't me Leggy, honest!

pres bombaklaart said...

smoking, disgusting habit - although, being a tolerant nation, our legislation still permits united states citizens to step outside the land of the free and smoke at will in places with reduced life expectancy, such as libya and afghanistan, where brands popular with americans are superkids and unlucky strike...and you know what, in these undeveloped countries it's not uncommon to find a whole family smoking away, and no-one even bats an eyelid, usually because everyone in the neighbourhood is suffering from secondary death. thank god for american values and all those who valiantly drop them on the unsuspecting and ignorant of this world.

Paul said...

Leg-iron: Roy Castle is the only 'passive smoking'death they can name, and he was neither a passive smoker nor did he die of anything smoking-related.

Wasn't he actually an occasional cigar smoker himself and liked the odd drink?

In fact, it would be interesting to see what he did die of.

pres obombaklaart said...


sorry folks, i dropped an 'o'. yes, this is what separates democracies from other systems of social-suppression - we can admit to our mistakes, apologize, and make the oil-pipelines, at least.

Anonymous said...

I wish that I knew of a 'smoky-drinky' as they sound brilliant.
Unfortunately I would not know where to look. I haven't been out to a pub now for 4 years and I really miss it.

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